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Gabrielcrimson
Debating Opponent
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 2:56 am Post subject: Transhumansim, A good thing? yes |
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well here i am ready to continue the debate as suggested.
And holy shit you are still pushing the same crap. blah blah blah monkeys are happy blah blah blah we'd be happier if we sat back invented nothing and killed our legacy as intelligent curious and incredibly self preserving species. the only sensible thing you've said so far is ''Unfortunately, Transhumanism doesn't cause problems.'' and I'm pretty sure it was accidental. what is your obsession with slavery being used as your moral plateau when it has no relation to this debate in the slightest hell I'm suprised in all your fucktard comparisons you haven't brought up nazis yet. The genetic modification of humans is probably the greatest thing man has ever considered, for one our species is based around genetic diversity and being able to decide on the beneficial instead of picking big blobs of good and bad in a nice skin package sounds like something we could do without. you go live in your little groups of savages and in all likely hood you'll segregate and continue your little indirect dance of eugenic where you will continue to try and better yourselves as a species by mating with the stronger and smarter in your slow primitive decision to try join transhumans in evolution lagging way behind while continuing to think you're right.
Everyone has dependencies that we don't actually need hell sticking to your monkey analogy, monkeys don't need to shove sticks into mounds of ants to eat but they stick to it because it's nature to try make things easier for yourself. Hell you don't need the health services to continue to propagating the species, hell the world would be better without population graph that's turning into a triangle but your still dependent on it . I don't need to use a computer to remotely fix someone elses computer hell i could get up and go to that particular computer and fix it by hand but i don't because remote assist is easier and in the long run i make more money that way.
Iraq was always a violent shit hole technology just makes the violence end faster and at a safer distance for the people with the bigger guns. Technology allows better communication and I'd be alot happier in war if i could call close by friends for help in a spectacular and accurate fashion.
On another point i act like I'm smarter than you because i am smarter than you. I make decent valid points you quote made up statistics . I'm not religious and it has never even been a topic of interest in my house hold so there is another retarded comparison lost on my (but if my granny asks I'm catholic =P) Just because we have different ethics doesn't mean i'm not ethical so obviously the people we take our ethics from have different styles of life and paint in a different medium if you will, sadly you revere Ofili while i revere Da Vinci. while your art might make something that can sometimes be considered a masterpiece most of it will be shit. Where as Da Vinci would work and work until somethings almost perfect and if he fucks up he'll start again or continue modifying it until it's perfect every time.
When had i ever said that we aren't a violent species I simply asked you if you wanted us to continue throwing our incredibly dangerous rocks , or would you like the human race to be given the capacity to truly understand, with logic and enhanced compassion. I see you haven't understood any analogy i have used because you have actually made the same assumption that I've been trying to get across. We are currently a bunch of unnecessary brick throwing savages that are incapable of actual change unless we go out of our way to change what humans are about.
NO I DON'T LIKE OUR SOCIETY that's what my side of the debate is about your fighting for humans to stay the way they are you idiot and in their current form they go to other countries kick down doors and interrogate people because they are as I've stated before in the analogy you previously pointed territorial savages that need to give themselves the capacity to understand.
And again in pointing out that I'm an idiot for saying transhumans won't eat. THAT WAS AN ANALOGY , that is why i even stated before that i would mock your bullshit conjecture. And what the hell are you talking about writing 106 page long fantasy books. Just because you can write something that barely even makes up what might be considered almost passable as something that can be considered long enough to be a small childrens book doesn't mean it's even any good. It's void in a discussion about intelligence when I have no idea whether it's any good and you have no idea whether i ever bothered to take more than a few hours out of a few days to day the same when i clearly have time enough to do debate with you. Hell send it to me and I'd gladly read it without any bias from this discussion. Currently you haven't shown any imagination to back your intelligence so I'll take a path you've taken before and quote Einstein 'Imagination is more important than knowledge... '' >You have yet to show either.
I'm not even going to bother describe to you what a pop phrase is.
Hey if you don't need technology to be socially happy then stop posting on youtube otherwise your argument has been nullified by hypocrisy. What is your obsession with war. Hell if you don't want to be a transhuman that's ok I'm only saying my point of view and debating it with you and ending almost every paragraph with how i thing it will lead to us understanding less fortunate people. where as you in all your socialist compassion prove that the human condition is a violent one and that all non humans will war with us for not following your ways. And are you saying I wouldn't have independent thought if I was transhuman or ar you saying i would be dependent on an outside source for my sustenance.
Speaking about being strong of heart Do you not feel that my opinions on this have been based on my passion and love for it. I'm pretty sure I'm more passionate about this than you are. Hell if they haven't been forced to be transhuman why would they have to fight with passion against people that have decided to be that way when they had the choice not to.
on your last post I'm pretty sure i covered that before so I'll leave this as it is until more points are brought to light. if you say something that's pretty much the exact same thing from a previous post I'll point it out and move on to something you've said thats new. otherwise id be there all day reiterating the same thing.
PS..You have to admit all this debating and insulting is fun. |
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denis273
Monarch
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | well here i am ready to continue the debate as suggested.
And holy shit you are still pushing the same crap. blah blah blah monkeys are happy blah blah blah we'd be happier if we sat back invented nothing and killed our legacy as intelligent curious and incredibly self preserving species. |
You still can't proof that we have happier lives than monkeys (if you measure how all the people in the world feel and divide it by the number of people in this world). We might be more powerful, but not necessarily happier, I'd say we're emotionally equal. My point is that your whole human genetic engineering stuff will turn people into lazy and greedy bastards. Do you really think they will be thankful? Do you really think they are gonna worship you as if you were their god? lolz. People don't even appreciate the very basic things you need to survive: food. As I've mentioned before, you see kids throwing it around in schools, and it will always be like that until a famine breaks out... That's why I'm against the permanent modification of the human genome.
| Quote: | | the only sensible thing you've said so far is ''Unfortunately, Transhumanism doesn't cause problems.'' and I'm pretty sure it was accidental. |
My point is that I'm not only arguing against this because of the risks, because then Transhumanists would say: "We will do everything we can to make sure nothing goes wrong..." and that's not what I want, I don't want them to do it at all no matter what, because that would be like turning gold into plastic, it's disgusting...
| Quote: | | what is your obsession with slavery being used as your moral plateau when it has no relation to this debate in the slightest hell I'm suprised in all your fucktard comparisons you haven't brought up nazis yet. |
But then I used slavery as an example of why emotions really are our moral compasses. Slavery had economic benefits, and there weren't problems with it either, because you weren't the one who feels it. The actual problems with it were our emotions, we can't stand to see people suffering... Just like I can't stand to see the human gene turned into a tool to please those greedy bastards in the laboratouries.
| Quote: | | The genetic modification of humans is probably the greatest thing man has ever considered, for one our species is based around genetic diversity and being able to decide on the beneficial instead of picking big blobs of good and bad in a nice skin package sounds like something we could do without. you go live in your little groups of savages and in all likely hood you'll segregate and continue your little indirect dance of eugenic where you will continue to try and better yourselves as a species by mating with the stronger and smarter in your slow primitive decision to try join transhumans in evolution lagging way behind while continuing to think you're right. |
I'd rather have the nature control the bettering of our species, because humans don't know what they're doing, they just follow their instincts supported by intelligence... You really think that genius that invented the atomic bomb knew what he was doing? Come on.
| Quote: | | Everyone has dependencies that we don't actually need hell sticking to your monkey analogy, monkeys don't need to shove sticks into mounds of ants to eat but they stick to it because it's nature to try make things easier for yourself. Hell you don't need the health services to continue to propagating the species, hell the world would be better without population graph that's turning into a triangle but your still dependent on it . I don't need to use a computer to remotely fix someone elses computer hell i could get up and go to that particular computer and fix it by hand but i don't because remote assist is easier and in the long run i make more money that way. |
I never said there was any problem with technology, I just said there was a problem with complete dependency to it. I believe there should be a rule in our civilization: we must always know how to survive in the wilds without technology. Because one day, if our technology fails, we will all be doomed. So creating dependencies isn't very wise, and indeed, it creates more weaknesses. So the less dependencies, the more strength.
| Quote: | Iraq was always a violent shit hole technology just makes the violence end faster and at a safer distance for the people with the bigger guns. Technology allows better communication and I'd be alot happier in war if i could call close by friends for help in a spectacular and accurate fashion.
On another point i act like I'm smarter than you because i am smarter than you. |
Iraq was always a violent shit hole because of our intelligence. If humans would have never existed, Iraq would be a beautiful place, you can't deny that.
| Quote: | | I make decent valid points you quote made up statistics . I'm not religious and it has never even been a topic of interest in my house hold so there is another retarded comparison lost on my (but if my granny asks I'm catholic =P) Just because we have different ethics doesn't mean i'm not ethical so obviously the people we take our ethics from have different styles of life and paint in a different medium if you will, sadly you revere Ofili while i revere Da Vinci. while your art might make something that can sometimes be considered a masterpiece most of it will be shit. Where as Da Vinci would work and work until somethings almost perfect and if he fucks up he'll start again or continue modifying it until it's perfect every time. |
I'm not surprised that you didn't counter my statement that art is what makes us human. Art is shit? lolz. I guess I'm just talking to a machine that is composed of cells and DNA.
| Quote: | | When had i ever said that we aren't a violent species I simply asked you if you wanted us to continue throwing our incredibly dangerous rocks , or would you like the human race to be given the capacity to truly understand, with logic and enhanced compassion. |
Our civilization is just an extension of what once was. Instead of little territories, we have massive countries. Instead of two monkeys fighting for the female, we have thousands of soldiers blowing each other up for a country... Or to be more specific, for oil.
| Quote: | | I see you haven't understood any analogy i have used because you have actually made the same assumption that I've been trying to get across. We are currently a bunch of unnecessary brick throwing savages that are incapable of actual change unless we go out of our way to change what humans are about. NO I DON'T LIKE OUR SOCIETY that's what my side of the debate is about your fighting for humans to stay the way they are you idiot and in their current form they go to other countries kick down doors and interrogate people because they are as I've stated before in the analogy you previously pointed territorial savages that need to give themselves the capacity to understand. |
Yes, but genetic engineering isn't the only way of giving people the capacity to understand, you'll just be turning them into zombies that do everything their genes tell them to do. The only reason we aren't like that already is because the nature has variety, there have to be bad things as well as good things, not everything can be completely good. And that's how joy works, after bad feelings come the good feelings. If I lived in a poor house for a long time and then suddenly switched to a rich one, I would be really happy. People who already live in rich houses aren't happy, they are just spoiled. That's how posthumans will be, if there are no bad things in life anymore. It's a basic law of the universe.
| Quote: | | And again in pointing out that I'm an idiot for saying transhumans won't eat. THAT WAS AN ANALOGY , that is why i even stated before that i would mock your bullshit conjecture. And what the hell are you talking about writing 106 page long fantasy books. Just because you can write something that barely even makes up what might be considered almost passable as something that can be considered long enough to be a small childrens book doesn't mean it's even any good. It's void in a discussion about intelligence when I have no idea whether it's any good and you have no idea whether i ever bothered to take more than a few hours out of a few days to day the same when i clearly have time enough to do debate with you. Hell send it to me and I'd gladly read it without any bias from this discussion. Currently you haven't shown any imagination to back your intelligence so I'll take a path you've taken before and quote Einstein 'Imagination is more important than knowledge... '' >You have yet to show either. |
You're just calling out assumptions, you've got no idea what my book is. I only give it to people when I get my copyright, so right now it's not available, call me a liar or whatever you want. I was just saying that no, I am not an idiot, otherwise I wouldn't have the capacity to even write a book or the capacity to speak four languages... or maybe the capacity to tell you that an adult insulting a teenager instead of countering his main arguments shows lack of intelligence?
| Quote: | I'm not even going to bother describe to you what a pop phrase is.
Hey if you don't need technology to be socially happy then stop posting on youtube otherwise your argument has been nullified by hypocrisy. What is your obsession with war. Hell if you don't want to be a transhuman that's ok I'm only saying my point of view and debating it with you and ending almost every paragraph with how i thing it will lead to us understanding less fortunate people. where as you in all your socialist compassion prove that the human condition is a violent one and that all non humans will war with us for not following your ways. And are you saying I wouldn't have independent thought if I was transhuman or ar you saying i would be dependent on an outside source for my sustenance. |
I use the internet because it's my only way of communicating to the world, I can't just go around and advertise on the streets lolz that would be illegal or expensive. My point is, if there was no internet, people would be more social in real life and there I'd have the chance to communicate my ideas... I'm not here because it's the only thing I need in this world to be happy, otherwise I'd be rather like playing video games, which is something I only do rarely though...
| Quote: | Speaking about being strong of heart Do you not feel that my opinions on this have been based on my passion and love for it. I'm pretty sure I'm more passionate about this than you are. Hell if they haven't been forced to be transhuman why would they have to fight with passion against people that have decided to be that way when they had the choice not to.
on your last post I'm pretty sure i covered that before so I'll leave this as it is until more points are brought to light. if you say something that's pretty much the exact same thing from a previous post I'll point it out and move on to something you've said thats new. otherwise id be there all day reiterating the same thing. |
Everything we do is based on feelings, I just use the word "emotions" to be more specific. Modifying crops genetically is the result of excessive self-esteem, thinking that you own everything. That's not love. That's greed. Passion? Yeah, maybe, but not love.
| Quote: | | PS..You have to admit all this debating and insulting is fun. |
I don't really use this as entertainment. I have dedicated my life to become a moral teacher, save the environment and stop human germ line genetic engineering, which is the tricky one that goes down from generation to generation permanently.
Now, this is your first warning. In these forums, we don't insult each other. |
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Gabrielcrimson
Debating Opponent
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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there's no one else here who cares if we insult each other. now that we're on you turf you're gonna start acting like an overlord of the forums. I was the admin of the urban dead proboard over 50'000 people and i still didnt act like that. meglomanic.
And you're still reiterating the same things over and over again. I think we should leave it at i'll follow my path you follow yours because you clearly won't do the research and i for some reason can't stop telling you your wrong. I am a transhumanist you're some sort of antiquated naturist.
and i never said art was shit i said Ofili is mostly shit with the odd masterpiece like natural evolution. Transhumanism is like da vinci with every piece being fantastic. I dont see why you continue to say that emotion will be void from a trans human culture. |
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denis273
Monarch
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | there's no one else here who cares if we insult each other. now that we're on you turf you're gonna start acting like an overlord of the forums. I was the admin of the urban dead proboard over 50'000 people and i still didnt act like that. meglomanic. |
This is the forum of a micronation based on green politics, where all debates will be recorded and will remain unaltered. I am the leader of this project, but there's no evidence of me acting like an 'overlord' of the forum, you're probably using it as an excuse to surrender, which you're always welcome to do. (Excuses don't help, they just make you look like you're bluffing...)
| Quote: | | And you're still reiterating the same things over and over again. I think we should leave it at i'll follow my path you follow yours because you clearly won't do the research and i for some reason can't stop telling you your wrong. I am a transhumanist you're some sort of antiquated naturist. |
In this specific debate, this is all what you basically need to know:
What Transhumanism is...
What Somatic Gene Therapy is...
What Germ Line Gene Therapy is...
The rest is logic based on your feelings, when it comes to questioning the ethicalness of an issue. This is my conclusion:
"All humans are born with the right to do anything they want with their bodies; the only justification for Transhumanism, which includes, but is not limited to: somatic gene therapy, replacing natural body parts with artificial ones, etc. However, any genetic modification of the human genome (germ line gene therapy) is unethical and should be punished with life-time jail sentence for the following reasons: Metaphysically, this technology would be destroying the human spirit, which is a perfectly balanced structure of variations which composes one very basic element of life: challenges. Scientifically, this technology would be corrupting the natural DNA sequence of the human genome, leading to unknown consequences in the future, by the fact that all human technologies are and will always be unstable."
| Quote: | | and i never said art was shit i said Ofili is mostly shit with the odd masterpiece like natural evolution. Transhumanism is like da vinci with every piece being fantastic. I dont see why you continue to say that emotion will be void from a trans human culture. |
I never said that, I said emotion is blocked by greed in you, and all the other scientists who are involved in animal testing, genetic engineering (excluding medical gene therapy), etc. Saving people's lives using medical gene therapy is indeed the only type of genetic engineering I would support, but the rest is greedy, not even germ line gene therapy to remove genetic diseases in the human genome, because parents have a choice; they can either give birth to a child with genetic diseases or adopt one that needs parents, it's just that there will always be human stupidity... And, as I said before, beyond a basic level of comfort, more wealth doesn't create greater happiness, that goes, not only with material possessions, but with drugs, transhumanism, etc. |
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